The Genesis of the Modern HP War

"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner) 07/17/2018 at 15:05 • Filed to: HP Wars, Better than the 60's, HP

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It’s time to argue.

I will have a white clone with a voodoo motor......someday.

We live a midst the greatest HP war in the history of the automotive industry. The past 20's years have seen horsepower and torque sky rocket. Emission are down, gas mileage is up, and cars are more reliable than ever before. This is all good news for car enthusiasts. It begs the question, when did it begin? What is the genesis of the modern hp war?

The stories I grew up with pegged the glory years from 1965-1971/2 for cheap power and speed. It was told to me that it all started when GM dropped the 389 into the Pontiac Tempest Le Mans and called it the GTO. I’ve heard it argued that it really was started with the hemi powered Chrysler letter cars of the 1950's and the 1 hp/ cubic inch barrier, but those arguments are quite weak and don’t explain the lull seen in the early 1960's.

With today’s 800+ hp Demon, 700+ Hellcat, Vette, 911... 650+ cars of many forms, hp and cheap speed is more prevalent the even the best years of the 1960's. After conversing with a fellow gear head, we couldn’t decide on a true genesis of the modern hp war. Was it the C5 Z06 with a heady 405 hp? Was it the 2005 C6 or Mustang GT with a sub 25K price tag and 300 hp? Was it the Shelby GT with a then staggering 450hp in 2008? When did 300, 350, or 400 hp become so common as to not produce breath taking awe? The F40 was the fastest Ferrari when it debuted, the F50 came out roughly a decade later and may or may not have been faster - depends on how you measure it, but I’m baised towards the F50..... I digress. The F40 wasn’t truly surpassed until the Enzo came out with the supercar plethora of the early aughts. Today however, McLaren has the 720s which will run neck and neck with the P1 that just came out a couple years ago.

I believe the genesis of the modern hp war is the 2000 Cobra R.

The New Edge generation of Mustang ran from 1999-2004. A Cobra was available in 1999 and it came with 320 hp. However, there was an issue from the factory and some left a few ponies short. The base GT sported 260hp and ~300 ft lbs of torque. The Cobra R made a huge jump over previous Cobras. It was and still is relatively expensive, but that is due to its rarity over its performance. Ford stuffed a big honking motor into its small coupe and turned everything up to 10.

With a few choice mods you could have the 400 hp and the fastest car to come out of the big 3 short of a Corvette and the Viper.

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I remember reading that comparison test over and over again when it came out. These cars were pure speed and bad to the bone. They all knocked on the door of 400hp or blew it away in the case of the Viper. The next year the Vette came with 405 HP, and three years later the Terminator Cobra came with 390 hp, although a tune and pulley swap nets a number closer to 500.

The Cobra R was the first car based on something with humbles roots that dared to see what would happen when you stuck a big motor into a small package. The hottest Camaros and Mustangs previously capped out around 320 hp. The Cobra R brought supercar hp numbers so a vehicle that had 190 hp in its base form. The Cobra R boasted more than double the hp of the V6.

Once the 2000 Cobra R went out of production, big numbers became normal. 300 hp was no longer a big number, 400 hp was the big number to shoot for. 300 hp was the ante. Soon 350 hp was the ante, and now 400 is the entry level for horsepower in the chase for cheap speed and high hp.

This is the car that started it all, the 2000 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra R. In all it’s removable front splitter and functional boy racer wing glory.

PartyPooper2012 > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 15:49

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I disagree. ( didn’t read the whole thing, but you wanted to argue)

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 15:56

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I think you’re on the right track. The cars of the 80s were such terrible monsters that manufacturers didn’t have to try too hard in the late 90s to make a car seem fast. Of course, there were Vipers and the exotics with however many hundred horses, but it wasn’t until the Cobra R came out that i noticed that high horsepower could be attainable.

Then, the Germans started getting on board (yet in another way why the Bangle E65 remains so influential today) and crazy things started coming not just from M and AMG, but the normal cars, too. About that same time, Subaru and Mitsu started their battles with the STI and Evo X. I remember being so impressed by the 350Z that it could be had with about 300hp, cheap(ish)ly.

Through the late 00s, the hp numbers just kept increasing, a little under the radar. Now, we’re to the point where domestics are pushing out  high HP halo cars while many manufacturers are *lowering* hp figures in an effort to increase fuel mileage. It’s all cyclical. 

nerd_racing > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 15:57

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I’m thinking it started with the GLHS Omni.  Fight me! 

Future next gen S2000 owner > nerd_racing 07/17/2018 at 15:59

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No evidence cited in your work, plus carbs.

 Grade: D

Future next gen S2000 owner > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 07/17/2018 at 16:02

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The way I seem the 80's is finally getting a handle on emissions and the 90's was getting fuel injection right. The combination of those two issues getting figured out in the mid 90's led to the explosion of hp we saw begin right around the turn of the last century .

gettingoldercarguy > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 16:03

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I think aftermarket turbo compact cars helped to start this trend along with improved controls and knock strategies from OEMs . Turbo Hondas were getting terribly quick and the standard na big V8 tric k was running out of options. Then you had the sixes from Mitsubishi, Nissan and Toyota. Easy to turn up and make stupid fast.

You essentially had a generation of people growing up on turbos and they naturally progressed as their lives and careers did to more expensive, forced induction cars.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 16:04

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I was going to say “what about the original Lightining” but that only had 240ho

RallyWrench > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 16:05

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I’d argue in favor of the first LT1 Camaros in 1993. 275hp absolutely blew Ford out of the water. Not just in power, but they looked like concept cars and the Mustang looked dumb. And I say this as a “Ford guy”. The ‘94 Mustang came out rated at 215hp, I think? Less than the Fox it replaced, as I recall. Even the Fox Cobra only did 240, even though the 5.0s were generally thought to be underrated. The Camaro/Firebird came out and laid the beat down on them, and it’s been escalating since.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 16:07

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I would argue the 2010 Camaro V6 changed things. Here came along a rental lot special with over 300hp. That’s nuts.

Future next gen S2000 owner > RallyWrench 07/17/2018 at 16:08

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One could make that argument. The Mustang was generally out gunned until the New Edge came out with comparable numbers.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 07/17/2018 at 16:09

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That’s the result though. The HP wars had been going on long before the 2010's came out. I think the 2011 Mustang GT came with over 400hp.

Ash78, voting early and often > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 16:12

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I say serious horsepower wars have to start in the mainstream, not niche sports cars or halo cars.

My take: Early 2000s Nissan Maxima and Altima (V6), as well as most of the Nissan lineup. Virtually every one of their ads led with the horsepower figure and added nothing else. They rode that wave for about a decade while the competition caught up.

I honestly think that if not for Nissan, all of our mainstream cars would still be sporting 180-220hp.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Ash78, voting early and often 07/17/2018 at 16:20

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The VQ 3.5 V6 is a solid argument to be made.

My bird IS the word > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 16:26

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I don’t think the horsepower wars ever died, just the cars that fought in them. It’s just healthy competition, we all profit.

I’m still hoping for the next generation combustion engines and that the mazda skyactiv/ koenigsegg freevalve isn’t just a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

CobraJoe > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 16:29

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Started in 1982.

After the HP ratings were crushed in the 70s, the 1982 Mustang was the first inkling that power would actually return to the pony cars, and it was advertised like the second coming of the Boss 302. (Which honestly wasn’t that far off, considering the only V8 offered in ‘81 was a 115hp 4.2L)

157hp! Almost enough to beat the top level Camaro in ‘82!

Then in ‘83, the Camaro Z28 got bumped up to 190hp, vs the Mustang’s 175hp. Then in ‘85 the Camaro went up to 215 vs the Mustang’s 210.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 16:36

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Hmmm; I was thinking the result of the HP wars was the Demon.

To your point, the 2011 Mustang had to have way more than 300 hp because think of how embarrassing it would be if they didn’t. The mustang gt made incremental power gains up until 2010 when it was 315hp and then all of a sudden, boom! They had to add 100hp in one year. I doubt the timing was coincidental . That’s really why I think this was a bottom up thing.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 16:50

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I really hope that someday there is a “lightweight wars” instead. Power is completely meaningless if the vehicle weighs 56,000 tons. Granted all of the “fat americans”, shitty roads, and safety requirements are the driving factors behind all cars becoming grossly overweight. But there could be technology breakthroughs someday that lead to super lightweight materials on the cheap. And that is the war I want to happen where a car weighing more than 1000 pounds is seen as heavy and we look back on the Miata as being an overweight archaic machine. One can dream...

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Ash78, voting early and often 07/17/2018 at 16:58

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I’m with you on this. The 2003 Accord came out with 240HP to compete and Toyota put the 3.3L V6 in the Camry SE in 2004 . Mitsubishi replaced their ~200HP 3.0L (which was previously considered fast) with a 235HP 3.8L in 2004 too . Even Mazda got in the act by going from a 170HP 2.5L V6 in the 626 to a 3.0L Ford Duratec variant with 200+HP. GM’s 3.8L OHV Series II and III engines , renowned for reliability and smoothness and regularly updated and improved, were trashed as deeply out dated because it produced ‘only’ 200HP from 3.8L. Its been insanity ever since.

Ash78, voting early and often > The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) 07/17/2018 at 17:02

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Good timeline, that about sums it up!

Honda once said something to the effect of “We can keep the car at around 200hp and increase the efficiency with each generation, but the market wouldn’t accept it, so we add more power and keep the efficiency flat.”

Interesting too that the first Accord Hybrid wad built as a faster, sportier alternative to the V6 model. They missed the mark because at the time, hybrid was expected to improve efficiency, not make the car faster. Today it does both.

crowmolly > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 17:06

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1997.

Going to sound like a cliche, but it was the LS1 introduction.

Base Corvette got a 45 hp increase. A year later the F-body got “only” 20 but everybody knows that was horseshit.

Dodge didn’t have its Hemi yet and regular Ford stuff couldn’t keep up until the Terminator.

I’d discount any low production/special editions because it’s common purchases that define the hp war to me. Anybody with money could get their hands on an LS1 car. Cobra Rs were limited production, like ZR1s.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 17:12

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Except there was a 40+ hp difference between the New Edge GT and a base V8 Camaro of the same era. 

Where have all the lightweights gone? > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 17:17

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I would venture to say that the hp wars started in that time frame, but the limited numbers Cobra R isn’t the Genesis. I would venture to say the big shot fired was the 4th gen Camaro SS. For $30-35k, you can get a car with a true 320hp and still remains a great platform to add power.

Long-Voyager > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 17:23

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GLHS was not carb’d.

Your grading is invalid.

crowmolly > Where have all the lightweights gone? 07/17/2018 at 17:27

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you can get a car with a true 320hp  

FWIW, you could get ~330-345hp for $25,000 via an LS1 Z28. HP numbers were not real.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Long-Voyager 07/17/2018 at 18:21

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Blame the rubric .

aquila121 > nerd_racing 07/17/2018 at 18:38

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I say that started the “I can make stupid-high power with a shitbox” horsepower wars.

TahoeSTi > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/17/2018 at 18:50

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So you don’t count the 93 or 95 Cobra Rs? 

Future next gen S2000 owner > TahoeSTi 07/17/2018 at 19:12

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Not as the genesis of the modern hp wars. The 2000 was the first to go big.

Tristan > RallyWrench 07/18/2018 at 03:10

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I disagree... While GM was doing big things, Ford was content in holding the Mustang back. The 5.0 SNs saw a decrease in power due to the change in rating methods and a restrictive intake. Then, 2 years later, Ford jumped the shark and tossed the miserable 205 HP 2v 4.6 in the GT. The Cobra got a slick engine but it was a high revving engine saddled with 2.73 gearing. The new edge SNs finally showed signs of life for Ford.

Long-Voyager > aquila121 07/18/2018 at 07:07

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They’re still going today: See WRX STI, Fo ST, FoRS, etc.

nerd_racing > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/18/2018 at 07:22

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Multi Point Fuel Injection!

TahoeSTi > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/18/2018 at 10:27

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The 95 cobra had 300hp and 365 lb/ft of tq It wasn’t that far off the 2000 R. Shortly after that the LS1 came to F-bodies with 320hp.   

RT > Future next gen S2000 owner 07/19/2018 at 22:49

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Since the ‘horsepower wars’ are a global thing, I highly doubt that Mustang would’ve made any waves in Europe or Japan - where it wasn’t even sold at all.

Power levels were always on the rise since the 80s anyway. What we’re seeing is just a recovery from the fuel crises, plus improvements in technology over time.